Seeking advice on the "Salary" question...

[Dave L (@socaldavel)]

Those of us out hitting the pavement searching for a job have a lot of hurdles to overcome; a down economy, high competition for the few jobs that appear to be out there, companies downsizing to reduce spending, etc.

One that I hadn't expected was something I'm labeling as "salary discrimination".

I'll explain. I've had a few follow-up calls for either jobs I've applied for or resumes that hiring agencies have seen and believe I'm "a good fit for". The discussion usually goes fairly well until the inevitable question comes up:

What are your salary expectations?

This is usually balanced with asking what my most recent salary was.

Personally I feel that this is where I get into trouble. As an IT professional with 14 years of experience and having spent most of that time working in New York City, I had built up quite a nice salary. This wasn't due to luck or taking advantage of any system. I had worked hard for years and even through the "dot com boom" I was one of the few of my colleagues who didn't jump from company to company for greater profits. Stability and loyalty was important to me. I was fortunate to maintain my position (and salary) when I moved out West. However now, when discussing with potential employers or recruiters I try to walk the delicate line. I certainly want to be honest with them but as soon as I mention what my W2 says (which would be the proof they ask for) I immediately feel the need to apologize for it. I try to be humble and explain that I'm realistic in my goals and not expecting that kind of salary. I often state that I'm open to discussions/negotiate salary.

The other end of that phone usually holds responses similar to "Oh then you won't want this job" and a few times the recruiter refused to discuss the position any further with me even though I urged that I was in fact interested.

I understand that the hiring company will typically look at you (or me in this case) and think that I'm going to leave as soon as a better offer comes along, solely based on salary.

So my question is:

How do you fight this discrimination?

How to you honestly answer the question about salary history when you know it could be detrimental and convince the hiring manager or the representing agent that you're truly interested in the position itself?

[Douglas E. Welch]

Wow, I have so many thoughts running through my mind about this. Let's see if I can put them into some order.

First, there is a rule in the sales games that "The first one to talk, loses." I often consul people to avoid putting salaries on their resumes and do avoid discussion salaries in interview, much for the reason of your own experience. Salary is one of the first "cull" points in the interview process. The folks doing the hiring need some way to reduce the number of possible candidates and often use past salary as one of the most gross methods of doing it. Heck, you can often throw over half the resumes ( or more) based on that alone.

While I have never used this in practice myself, I am thinking that saying something like, "Oh, let's discuss salary once I know a bit more about the position. What salary range does the position offer?" It is unfair for them to ask you to divulge information when they are trying to withhold their own information. Another possible approach is saying very clearly, "I don't make my job decisions based solely on salary (and an unspoken, you shouldn't either), why don't you tell me more about the position." They may have the power in this one, small situation, but you have the power to walk away and you must be willing to use it. To often we forget that a company needs our skills as much as we need/want their paycheck.

One of the major issues is that you want to get them to like you as a candidate as much as possible, so when it comes down to the salary issue, they want to make it happen. Then you can negotiate the salary from a position of power. It is so important to remember that employment is a 2 way street. If they need your skills then they must be willing to pay for it. They aren't "giving" you a job. You will be working very hard to earn the salary that you receive.

Too often, we take a job that is a bad fit or poorly paid because we are desperate. The stink of desperation almost guarantees that you will be abused in job hunt situations. Don't give them any reason to think you are desperate (even if you are) or you will suffer for it.

Finally, you say of your past salary "I immediately feel the need to apologize for it."

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER apologize for your past salary. It isn't like you were given some huge bonus for sitting on your butt. You worked very hard to EARN that salary and deserved it. Apologizing for your past salary is saying to them "I didn't deserve it." Is that really the message you want to be sending? I learned long ago to never apologize for my freelance rate. Never say "I'm sorry" when people question it. You aren't sorry. You deserve to be paid what you are worth. If they are unable or unwilling to pay your rate, that is their problem, not yours.

When we are in recession and jobs become scarce, people seem to think that the job search rules change. They don't. Your work is worth something no matter what the market. The recession seems to make companies think they can low-ball and abuse candidates. Don't buy what they are selling. You have value -- often quite a high value -- and you need to remember that each time you walk into an interview.

Douglas

[Dave L (@socaldavel)]

Douglas, Thank you and very nicely put.

A couple of quick points. Perhaps I mistakenly used "apologize" when I probably should have said "explain". Leaving my high salary out there to linger when asked certainly has had a negative response before too so to combat that, I often explained that it was due to my hard work & success over a long period of time. Trying to emphasize my positive influence, stability and abilities to achieve. Apparently that hasn't worked either.

I like the "Oh, let's discuss salary once I know a bit more about the position. What salary range does the position offer?" approach and will try that next time.

The "I don't make my job decisions based solely on salary, why don't you tell me more about the position." position is actually one that I use although not in those exact words. Often I try to steer the conversation back to the job at hand, the skills they're looking for, etc and interject quick bullet points about previous experiences with those technologies giving them just a taste while still leaving plenty of conversation points for a face-to-face interview (which is what my immediate goal here is to obtain).

I think what I find most frustrating is the thought that just because someone had earned a higher salary than the you (as the hiring company) are offering or are willing to pay, doesn't mean that the person either 1) isn't willing to settle for a lower salary now or 2) that should be a criteria to be held against them.

I like to use this analogy: If you're shopping for a suit and Macy's is having a sale, do you not buy that nicely designed, well tailored suit which is now marked down 40% because it was once selling for more? No, you use this time to obtain quality at a lower cost.


- Dave

[Adam Motenko]

Very interesting. As a Career Advisor, Negotiation Consultant, and former Recruiter, I thought I would weigh in.
As Douglas says, this is a question to help weed candidates out. It's actually pretty lazy since it has nothing to do with actually job fit. Most companies will pay for the right person if the need to. In this case the recruiter isn't even interested in whether you are the right person, which is their loss. When I was recruiting I liked to present my clients a higher and lower level/$ option and have them choose, so being expensive may not rule you out completely as long as you are within the salary range. It is NEVER a good idea to negotiate money up front. I suggest you always put it off until the final stage. However, sometimes it feels impossible to get the other person to move on without an answer. Generally I suggest always basing your salary requirements on some sort of industry recognized form of legitimacy. The blue book is a great example for buying a car. If you have no idea what a fair range might be or even what the company is looking to pay, asking what they are looking to pay and saying, "depending on the entire compensation package/what the whole situation looks like, that range sounds fine to me." or "my range would be..." Then you can ask more about the details and share your interests. The recruiter is basically looking for a way to rule you out, so don't give it to him. You always have the choice to ask for what you want once the job has been offered to you. I would not ask for anything until then.

One thing Douglas said that I disagree with is this... The job search rules absolutely change depending on the market because one's alternatives change. That's what sets the market. If you low-ball me and my alternative is to continue searching in a bad market or take your job, I'm taking your job. I'll still try to negotiate the salary based on some standard of legitimacy, but my leverage is decreased because my best alternative does not meet my interests as well as the option of taking the job. Look at the recent NBA free agency period. Players are accepting low ball offers because they have no other offers. I'm a Celtics fan and Stephan Marbury can demand a high salary all he wants but he isn't getting it in America. He's actually looking overseas now. It's not a "respect" thing, it's the market.

I coach a lot of people on how to market themselves appropriately in this economy - which often means looking like you are less experienced/skilled (and therefor less expensive) than you may be. The goal of your resume/cover letter/phone screen etc. is to get in front of the hiring manager. All of the job search steps lead to hopefully an offer, which then can be negotiated based on your interests. Until your offer is in hand, I suggest doing everything possible to make yourself look like the perfect candidate. Like I said, a good hiring manager will pay a little extra to get the person they want.

I hope this is helpful

[Nissim Ziv]

Here is an article that provides some good points -
http://www.job-interview-site.com/how-to-negotiate-a-job-offer-sala...